Curse

azizul1975 · Jun 06, 2008, 02:29 AM // 02:29

i just want to answer OP, if u have a splinter weapon spammer in your team, bring Melonni.

chesterocks7 · Jun 06, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

You use pvx wiki builds which are mostly bad or average at best, and you don't want experienced player like Alex to tell you what's good and what's bad. I wonder.. Why the fk do you ask questions then? You wait for someone on your level to tell you what you wanna hear? Or you want someone good to tell you the truth?

You want to compare 2 melee heroes... Guess what they do the same thing, but one of them does it better. They have the same weaknesses it's fkin obvious they will both be average when there is no melee hate and they will both suck when there is melee hate present.... wtf do you wanna hear? Koss is better when he's hungry, and melloni kicks butt when she's drunk....

And you acuse everyone of being a kid when it's actually you who act childish.

ill trust the tested build off of an official fan site over the opinion of some "experienced" player because you say i should take his word for it. i will take the word of the majority of players over the word of one because some stuck up prick says he is experienced and i am childish. this is the internet dumbass, im not going to take the word of one person because you say he is experienced, im going go with what most people are saying and guess what, its not what you are saying. save your fking insults for someone who gives a shit, because i dont.

chesterocks7 · Jun 06, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

And you acuse everyone of being a kid when it's actually you who act childish.

i accused one person of being a kid, and if you read her posts then it would be more than obvious why. please point out how im being the kid here because you throwing around blind insults really means nothing.

Trvth Jvstice · Jun 06, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

ill trust the tested build off of an official fan site over the opinion of some "experienced" player because you say i should take his word for it. i will take the word of the majority of players over the word of one because some stuck up prick says he is experienced and i am childish. this is the internet dumbass, im not going to take the word of one person because you say he is experienced, im going go with what most people are saying and guess what, its not what you are saying. save your fking insults for someone who gives a shit, because i dont.

Speak it brother! At least half of the elite posters on this forum are people that simply mimic and parrot the real genius players. I swear, if Moloch and Carinae were to create a thread explaining how wonderful Arcane Echoing Life Transfer is - you'd have 10 of the wanna be elite posters repeating this over the next few weeks. "Spiteful Spirit!???? wtf? Noob - If you wanted to not FAIL, you'd be eching LT - Stop FAilig So Muuch Noob!!!

- OK, Life Transfer may be a stretch - but you know what I mean.

chesterocks7 · Jun 06, 2008, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Speak it brother! At least half of the elite posters on this forum are people that simply mimic and parrot the real genius players. I swear, if Moloch and Carinae were to create a thread explaining how wonderful Arcane Echoing Life Transfer is - you'd have 10 of the wanna be elite posters repeating this over the next few weeks. "Spiteful Spirit!???? wtf? Noob - If you wanted to not FAIL, you'd be eching LT - Stop FAilig So Muuch Noob!!!

- OK, Life Transfer may be a stretch - but you know what I mean.

forgive me for not knowing who on this almighty is so much greater and wiser than everyone else. i must be such a noob, or maybe even *gasp* have a life, and not spend all day on these forums trying to prove to everyone else that i have such leet skillz.

i play this game casually and come here just as casually, so yeah im going to go with popular opinion over the opionions of so-called "elite" posters.

itsvictor · Jun 06, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

PvX blows pretty hard with a majority of it's builds. It re-vet's build according to what is meta or just copies builds posted here. It's a collection of random builds, a lot of the ratings are misleading(WoH Split Wammo anyone).

Regardless DW spam off a scythe is a lot more useful if you want to use a melee AI (which is extremely unreliable). Imo Earthshaker off a human warrior(so you can use pve skills)>derv. Dervs AI excels at damage dealing capabilites compared to a warrior AI though. Warrior AI fails because it doesn't understand timing of skills,etc that is gained through actually playing the class.

-Lotus- · Jun 06, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

The majority of good players know that most builds on PvX wiki are crap for the same reason you cant use wikipedia to write a paper. the information can be edited by anyone and is fact-checked by no one.
good builds come out of good players and are only improved when better options are discussed.

Abedeus · Jun 06, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

PvX is not that bad. It's just that when a Player's skillbar is good, hero fails miserably.

Stop using melee heroes and get a paragon. Now.

DarkSpirit · Jun 06, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

Speak it brother! At least half of the elite posters on this forum are people that simply mimic and parrot the real genius players. I swear, if Moloch and Carinae were to create a thread explaining how wonderful Arcane Echoing Life Transfer is - you'd have 10 of the wanna be elite posters repeating this over the next few weeks. "Spiteful Spirit!???? wtf? Noob - If you wanted to not FAIL, you'd be eching LT - Stop FAilig So Muuch Noob!!!

I only believe what I have tested and experience in the game myself. Therefore I must believe myself to be the only real genius, the rest of you must be fakes.

zling · Jun 06, 2008, 06:22 AM // 06:22

@ the op, your main problem is that you rely on PvX builds and more importantly ratings...
while most cookie cutter builds can be found there, and they obviously work as they are cookie cutters there are plenty of other very crappy builds in there, some of which get "good" and "great" ratings because some idiots decided to rate them that high and nobody else bothered rating them...

if you think Cleave is good on any Warrior(even a hero) than something is very wrong with you... Cleave is a very useless Warrior elite and since you rely on a Cleave build for your Koss than I'd say that this is your first mistake.

as for your question, what you seem to be failing to grasp is that neither should be used in ANY situation. only exception is if you're running a heavy physical build(with Paras and Rangers perhaps as well as yourself) than the D/N Orders Dervish build works nicely on Melonni. in ALL other cases that dont require a specific hero neither should be in your party...

Bront · Jun 06, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

ill trust the tested build off of an official fan site over the opinion of some "experienced" player because you say i should take his word for it. i will take the word of the majority of players over the word of one because some stuck up prick says he is experienced and i am childish. this is the internet dumbass, im not going to take the word of one person because you say he is experienced, im going go with what most people are saying and guess what, its not what you are saying. save your fking insults for someone who gives a shit, because i dont.

Many PvX builds aren't "Tested" very thoroughly, and since they can be publicly edited, are often defaced, or modified from the original build by someone else who thinks they know better. It's not a bad place to get an idea, but don't accept what it says is a good build for it's word, as skills are often updated, and the templates rarely take that into account unless it's a total nerf.

Alex may be rude, but he's often right. Melee Heroes and henchmen are less useful than most other heroes and henchmen due to targeting bugs, so they are less usefull than a similar ranged or caster build. A Melee hero or henchmen will run around after a single target instead of attacking, won't change targets well, won't disengage when being kited, and only occasionally shifts targets when being blocked.

Warrior heroes/henchmen are useful for carrying Charge if you need a party speed boost, but otherwise not particularly exciting. Minions work better for holding agro and body blocking, Paragons and Rangers can do similar amounts of damage per hit as a Warrior or Dervishes but can change targets with little movement so they attack more often and they're just as durable, and Assasins are just plain awful as dagger sins (even with the AI fixes, they can run Critical Barrage fairly well though).

However, if you had to chose using a Warrior or a Dervish, I will generally chose a Dervish hero, as they tend to be "less bad" with their skills, deal with enchantment cycling fairly well, and can (and often do) get more than 1 opponent with each attack with the scythe. Energy skills are used better by the AI than Adrenal skills, and Dervishes are all energy (with built in energy management to boot).

Now, you asked for other people's opinions of which one is better, and that is what most of us have offered. In stead of telling people trying to help you to shut up and answer your question, perhaps you had better clarify the exact question you want asked.

Cebe · Jun 06, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

im not really bringing them for their smart use of skills, moreso as tanks. i was just wondering what situations a dervish hero would be more beneficial than a warrior.

I never used to like Hero Dervishes but...my opinion has changed somewhat. I will often take a Dervish hero if I play Rit, or if I take a Hero Rit. Splinter Weapon + Dervishes is hawt, plus, they work well with Ebon Dust Aura for blinding packs of Melee and Rangers. Just need to give them an Ebon Scythe and you're away.

Warriors have higher armor, but, other than spreading deep wound around (which Paragons and Mesmers can do from range anyway), there's nothing really *that* special about them, other than Triple Chop.

It's my opinion that Hero Dervishes can sometimes be worth the dodgy melee AI.

One thing to remember with Dervish Heroes is their build needs to be simple. Heroes do not understand the concept of self-enchantment removal, or which enchantment should be stripped at what time, they don't really understand spikes, and damage conversion spells are dodgy. My usual Melonni build is something like:

[build prof=D/Rt name="EDA Dervish Hero" box myst=10+2 scyt=12+1+1 earthprayers=8+1 desc="Weapon #1: Ebon Scythe of Enchanting{br}Weapon #2: Ebon Scythe of Fortitude"][Faithful Intervention][Ebon Dust Aura][Heart of Fury][Mystic Corruption][Zealous Sweep][Mystic Sweep][Victorious Sweep][Death Pact Signet][/build]

So she can inflict Blind, she can make the blind last longer, she attacks pretty quick...it's good. For more conditions I'll slip in Aura of Thorns (or something else easy-to-play and useful) instead of Faithful Intervention because FI is often not really needed - I use it as an optional slot. Clearly, she's a bit screwed if her enchants get stripped... but it's fun watching her hit with a Splinter Weapon.

Usually I'll opt out of taking either a Warrior or Dervish hero though. Dervishes can be ok for Mandragorway builds, and Orders builds, and I find them more useful than hero Warriors.

chesterocks7 · Jun 06, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Warrior heroes/henchmen are useful for carrying Charge if you need a party speed boost, but otherwise not particularly exciting. Minions work better for holding agro and body blocking, Paragons and Rangers can do similar amounts of damage per hit as a Warrior or Dervishes but can change targets with little movement so they attack more often and they're just as durable, and Assasins are just plain awful as dagger sins (even with the AI fixes, they can run Critical Barrage fairly well though).

However, if you had to chose using a Warrior or a Dervish, I will generally chose a Dervish hero, as they tend to be "less bad" with their skills, deal with enchantment cycling fairly well, and can (and often do) get more than 1 opponent with each attack with the scythe. Energy skills are used better by the AI than Adrenal skills, and Dervishes are all energy (with built in energy management to boot).

i appreciate your input on the strengths and weakness' of the heros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Now, you asked for other people's opinions of which one is better, and that is what most of us have offered. In stead of telling people trying to help you to shut up and answer your question, perhaps you had better clarify the exact question you want asked.

i will clarify what i have said. the question i asked was what situation each hero is better for. that means i was looking for ppl's input on when they use one hero over the other. i was not looking for ppl to tell me that those heros are worthless, because if im asking that question, im obviously going to use those heros. and the only person i was being rude to was the girl who jumped in telling me i have reading comprehension problems and other childish shit. i have no patience for idiots. and i really dont care about ppls opinions about whether or not i should use the heros in question when im asking what situations ppl use them for.

so to clarify my question: if you use koss and melonni, in what situations do you use one over the other? if you do not use koss or melonni, dont bother posting.

sixofone · Jun 06, 2008, 11:51 PM // 23:51

It depends on the area and what you're likely to face. In an area with a lot of enchantment stripping Melonni's pretty screwed.

In a lot of my early days, when I first got NF and was running into stuff, Melonni usually died before Koss, so I began to rely on Koss more. I still tend to use a Warrior hero over a Derv, but that's because I'm using them as a damage dealer - usually to sick on a single target and try to get the taken down fast.

As for Wounding Strike: I noticed the last time I used Melonni with that as her elite, she wouldn't spam it!

It's one of those random changes in Hero AI that makes me go: wtf? She also stopped enchanting herself with Vital Boon, and only sometimes used Mirage Cloak. She had the energy for them, so I don't know what happened, but I suddenly had to micromanage her with a basic Wounding build!

rick1027 · Jun 07, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

i personally dont know either of your build so i fail in that spot but a general consenus on my part i 'd prefer melonni in most areas but where theredoesnt tends to be a lot of enchant strippers but thaTs because my melonni uses enchants. i rarely use melee heros because henchies do the job as well and i can spend my hero spots on heros that do more for my group. if you want advice looks at your heros bars and see where there weaknesses if there are a lot of enchants or such dont use that hero there or change their bar and know the area before you decide

A Leprechaun · Jun 08, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesterocks7

i dont play melee classes, so i dont really understand the difference between tanking and holding aggro. isnt it pretty much the same thing?

Wasting skills to aid your own survival = Tanking = Shit.

There is an edit button, I suggest you use it. Double posts ftl.

Also stop being an obnoxious ass. Alex tryed to help you and you complained because he told you which was better "overall" and not which is better "in certain situations".
If you want to get any future help on these forums I suggest you be more courteous and polite to those trying to help you.

I have no idea what you want me to say, which particular maps each is better on? Overall Dervish heroes are better than warrior heroes, they are both melee and used in the same sorts of situations, there is not much to differentiate which is better where.

~A Leprechaun~

Cebe · Jun 09, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Wasting skills to aid your own survival = Tanking = Shit.

Not only that, but self-survival skills (unless you're trying to get LS) are extremely selfish. A little piece of me dies every time I see someone give their Ele hero Stoneflesh Aura, and no wards.

Accursed · Jun 09, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Melonni < Koss.

^read what other people have said as well.^

ValaOfTheFens · Jun 09, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Koss just plain sucks. He runs away from battle all the time, pulling foes into the backline, and runs back to me after killing one foe like he expects a cookie or something. Melonni runs into battle and stays there until the foes are dead. Melonni > Koss.

chesterocks7 · Jun 10, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Also stop being an obnoxious ass.

calling the kettle black now?